Nazi Germany and Porsche on my mind

"JR1" (type35bugatti)
12/04/2014 at 10:15 • Filed to: Ferdinand Porsche, Nazi Germany

Luftwaffe and Ferdinand Porsche specifically. Did you know Oppo that Porsche was a member of the SS? Furthermore and I quote, "Ferdinand Porsche was quite insistent that in addition to the 3,500 concentration camp prisoners already employed by VW at this point, still more were needed... According to survivors, they were not ill-treated a the VW main works, at least in comparison to their short time at Auschwitz, but they were badly undernourished." (Backing HItler p. 216) Eventually these skilled metal working craftsman would be taken to a quarry in Tiercelet. At Tiercelet the prisoners skilled trade would not be put to good use.

By the way Ferdinand Porsche was a Nazi party member yet he was Czech born. Ethnic German perhaps but in the eyes of a Nazi party member Porsche was subhuman yet still a Nazi. Hypocrisy is a funny thing.

DISCUSSION (31)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > JR1
12/04/2014 at 10:18

The man was, quite literally, an evil genius. And damn he knew how to build a car.

JR1 > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
12/04/2014 at 10:20

Great engineer but unfortunately not strong enough to resist Nazi Propaganda. Hitler was quite a political juggernaut. He probably could have persuaded about anyone during those trying times in Europe.

Jcarr > JR1
12/04/2014 at 10:25

He designed a pretty interesting tank destroyer. I watched a special on PBS recently about his work with the Nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant

JR1 > Jcarr
12/04/2014 at 10:29

I have heard of this. His work with the Nazi tank development was astounding. He was commissioned to design a tank that was 5 stories tall. HIs revolutionary hybrid system failed him however.

Jcarr > JR1
12/04/2014 at 10:31

Yep, found a link where you can watch them online:

http://www.pbs.org/program/nazi-m…

TheBaron2112 > JR1
12/04/2014 at 10:38

Also, to have a high level job like that, you basically HAD to be a member of the Nazi party.

daender > JR1
12/04/2014 at 10:47

Kinja'd!!!

You mean the P1000 "I don't give a fuck about bombers" Ratte?

Party-vi > JR1
12/04/2014 at 10:57

You don't suppose he wanted more workers to get them away from the concentration camps?

cayman2007 > JR1
12/04/2014 at 11:03

He really had no choice in cooperating with Nazi Germany, if you have the time read the book Ferdinand Porsche : Genesis of Genius

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Party-vi
12/04/2014 at 11:05

This is immediately what I thought of.

Racescort666 > TheBaron2112
12/04/2014 at 11:06

I read that even the GP drivers for Mercedes and Auto Union were technically part of the SS. I guess several of them weren't super happy about that.

davedave1111 > Party-vi
12/04/2014 at 11:11

No, he wanted more workers to build more cars. Porsche was not a nice man, by any stretch of the imagination.

The Ghost of Oppo > JR1
12/04/2014 at 11:13

Where is that quote from? It is documented that Porsche did not like Hitler but realized the only way to make his vision become a reality was through Nazi funding and support.

davedave1111 > JR1
12/04/2014 at 11:15

Ferdinand Porsche is long dead. I get more upset about Nicky Lauda getting a free pass, despite having built his career on Nazi blood money. The von Lauda's were leading Austrian Nazis, and their fortune comes in large part from slave labour used in their factories after the Anschluss.

If you want the car man with the bloodiest hands, though, it was Henry Ford. Hitler cited him as a specific inspiration, he was such a rabid anti-Semite. He was also a Nazi-supporting traitor, which is why he was forced out of control at Ford when the US joined the war. Does any of that make the Model T less of an achievement? Nope.

TheBaron2112 > Racescort666
12/04/2014 at 11:40

They were. Caracciolla I know was at least in the Nazi Socialist Motor Corps. He was referred to as a "Squadron Leader" according to his rank in the Motor Corps.

JR1 > daender
12/04/2014 at 13:45

I believe the thing was so heavy it would sink into the ground.

JR1 > Party-vi
12/04/2014 at 13:46

I believe it was to stay competitive against Junkers, Daimler-Benz, BMW, etc.

JR1 > The Ghost of Oppo
12/04/2014 at 13:47

Backing Hitler it is a pretty well documented and supported book.

JR1 > cayman2007
12/04/2014 at 13:48

I would like to. I want to know more about the nitty gritty details. I think an argument from both sides would be good to see.

JR1 > davedave1111
12/04/2014 at 13:53

Lauda was not alive during the Nazi regime. I am not going to fault a man for his fathers sins.

Furthermore I agree Henry had horrible views and was far too in love with Hitler. I have trouble liking the man. I do believe however he was a product of his time and I won't fault him for that. He was too vain to be open to the ideas of the enlightened.

JR1 > TheBaron2112
12/04/2014 at 13:54

I agree. The Nazi regime was full of terror and deception. It never paid however to be loyal to Hitler. He killed a great many of his friends.

JR1 > Racescort666
12/04/2014 at 13:54

Where did you read that I would like to take a look?

daender > JR1
12/04/2014 at 14:03

Let's see! 1000 tons = 2000000 pounds. Combined track width is 24 feet and the hull length is around 114 feet (we'll assume the contact surface doesn't extend the full reach of the hull and say it's about 100 feet). 2000000 pounds / 2400 square-feet of contact area = 833 psf = 5.78 psi! That's actually some light specific ground pressure!

Kinja'd!!!

As a point of reference: Object 279, the Soviet nuclear shock-wave surviving-capable super-heavy tank, weighs in at 60 tons but has a specific ground pressure of 8.54 psi prevent it from sinking into the soft Russian mud infamous for swallowing whole tanks!

ranwhenparked > JR1
12/04/2014 at 18:48

Nazi racial ideology was all about bloodline and their unscientific notion of "race", not on what side of a post-WWI border you were born on, so the fact that Porsche was born in what is now the Czech Republic but was in 1875 the Austro-Hungarian Empire wouldn't have been an issue at the time. He was a German by their standards.

Racescort666 > JR1
12/04/2014 at 19:37

The book Driving Forces: The Grand Prix Racing World Caught in the Maelstrom of the Third Reich https://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602173/…

Excellent book.

JR1 > ranwhenparked
12/04/2014 at 20:44

I am a student of history and yet I forgot about how young the Czech Republic was. Thanks for the correction. Unfortunately it still didn't help many Czech citizens when the military pushed into their sovereign territory.

ranwhenparked > JR1
12/04/2014 at 20:50

Certainly not, but its not like that was a concern for the Nazis. A good percentage of the German minority was totally in favor of it though (regardless of how many tried to claim they weren't after the war was over), since they got used to being in charge in the Austria-Hungary days and didn't like their new 2nd class status in Czechoslovakia. The Communists settled things after the war by forceably resettling the Czech German population into East Germany.

JR1 > ranwhenparked
12/04/2014 at 21:03

Speaking of the Communist I learned yesterday upon Stalin's death a room was found that he had the only key to. In that room was Hitler memorabilia. Sounds weird but there is documentation saying Stalin wanted to take Hitler alive "to keep him as a pet." Apparently Hitler was one of the few men Stalin respected because he valued raw power.

ranwhenparked > JR1
12/04/2014 at 21:25

Never knew those details, but I was aware that Stalin did admire Hitler quite a bit.

When Germany invaded in 1940, he apparently went into something of a state of shock as he couldn't conceive of Hitler betraying him like that. I've heard he retreated to his dacha and cut off communication with his generals for a period of time, and that he became markedly more erratic and paranoid from that point onward.

Certainly would fit with what we do know about Stalin's psychiatric state for him to want a pet dictator.

JR1 > ranwhenparked
12/04/2014 at 21:36

I always found it funny Stalin was surprised about the invasion. If Stalin simply would have looked harder it would have be easy to realize Hitler is never honest when he signs a national document. I suppose Stalin's ego was just to big.

ranwhenparked > JR1
12/04/2014 at 22:04

That was probably it - no one could betray him , and for whatever reason, he considered Hitler reliable. Stalin figured he'd take the Baltic states and the eastern half of Poland and Germany would just take Poland's western half and that would be the end of Hitler's territorial ambitions. Not the first one to fall for that trick, certainly, but you really would have thought that world leaders would have known better by then.